Battle of the Best- Wine Rating vs Wine Competition

33 Comments

1. Congratulations! All the congrats to you! For living your dream, making connections & enjoying your passion.

   Here are my thoughts: I think general folks (I’m setting aside wine writers/industry people) need something that helps them realize a desire to try a new wine. It might be a score or medal, but it might also be a recommendation, an opportunity to taste or a special at thier shop. It’s not unlike a novel: getting noticed is infinitely important. So…indirect answer is that all wineries should explore all options.

   I have a great respect & interest in wine writing & I turn to my fellow writers constantly for ideas. I still believe in content & I think you & Mike are doing an excellent job in this area. I also read the “big” magazines. I read it all, actually. I also visit wineries & go to tastings. But, I’m a wine writer…I have a friend that is a collector. He’s a busy physician with a young family. He admires scores greatly & is looking for supreme values to age. I know he’s not checking blogs… two different customer profiles, reached through separate means.

   So, I’m thinking my advice is follow all opportunities, they will all lead to great customers 🙂

   1. Thank you so much Jill. I appreciate the feedback and your comment of different consumers look to different places is extremely valid and valuable. Thank you! Sláinte!

2. First congratulations on your continued success. My brother lives in Santa Margarita, just 8 miles n/o SLO. I cannot wait until our next visit so we can come to your winery. I feel like I know you after sharing our posts in different clubs. To answer your questions, I am most familiar with Food and Wine and have been a long time subscriber. I do look at the ratings but it is like movie ratings what I like may not be what someone else likes. Medals are a wonderful thing but I think you have to look at the competition. There are some Michigan reds that have won medals when placed against other midwestern wines but they cannot hold a candle to California reds, imho. Lastly, I get most of my inspiration now from the blogging groups to which we belong and from the other bloggers who are much more wine savvy than I.

   1. Thank you For your comments Wendy. It would be wonderful to meet you IRL. Please let us know the next time you are in the area.

3. First I am so crazy happy for you and proud of you! I will get to say I knew you when….
   Answers: 1- all and none equally, I get Wine Spectator but never subscribed so I have no idea why I receive it but I read it and enjoy it, I like Food & Wine because well its about food and wine, the rest I respect and read periodically online but really who has time; 2- numbers matter very very very little to me; 3-I’ve been around too many people who discuss the judging flaws at wine competitions, medals matter less than numbers and numbers really don’t matter; 4-YES! I love wine bloggers and friends who suggest wines; that matters to me the most. Since I work in the industry I feel Ive seen too much “behind the curtain” to believe in Oz. But I do believe people I know and respect and my own palate. Having said that I do know your wine is AWESOME!!!

   1. Thank you Michelle for your continued support. You really have been with us since the very beginning! Thank you for taking the time to answer the questions. We are trying to figure out if we should submit more with this vintage and decide how we will go about ’14, especially since the drought brought us in light.

4. Wow this is exciting & congrats for living your dream. Out of all those magazines I would say my first choice would be Food & Wine just because I’m more familiar with that particular magazine. I honestly don’t read a lot of the blogs and a lot of times I go by word-of-mouth regarding wines. Also, I live close to Michigan and there’s a lot of wineries here on the western side and we do go up for taste testing now and then. I do think medals would catch my attention, but that said your label is so adorable that caught my attention right away. I think we all have our different tastes and so the number system sometimes I pay tension to it and sometimes I don’t to be honest. I hope this helps and good luck on your journey ??

   1. Thank you Donna for responding and for the kind words about our label. Draco is the heart and soul of our winery. We lost him at 14yrs old, but he is with us every day. (and now we have rescued Vegas) I appreciate you taking the time out to give your opinion

5. I just emailed you!

   1. Thanks Camilla

6. Hello, and best of luck on your new venture! I was in wholesale wine sales in New Jersey for several years. Now I have a small store where I retail wine and beer. Generally speaking, at least in my area, numbers don’t mean that much, and medals don’t mean that much either. I host wine tasting often, and that is when I have success selling wines. Cabernet Franc is a great niche to work with, and is a category I will be creating this year. Its a slow process for a small store, but we’re getting there. Cheers!

   1. Thank you Bill for responding. Where in NJ is your store?

7. Lori,

   Here is a story I think you will like. Before this blog, I knew nothing about your wine. Michelle Williams of the Rockin Red Blog posted a link to this page in her twitter feed that I follow. Now I know about your wine, read more about what you and Mike are doing and will add a bookmark to you page for potential future visits.

   I think the challenge for any new wine label is exposure. How am I, a wine enthusiast from suburban Houston, Texas, supposed to know enough about your wine to purchase it among the myriad of choices I have? While I don’t buy wines because of their point ratings, their inclusion in a magazine like Wine Enthusiast at least gives me an idea that they would be worth picking up. If you had distribution in Houston and I saw your wine in a store or on a wine list, I would consider picking it over a brand I know nothing about.

   While I read Wine Enthusiast, Wine Spectator, Food & Wine and others, I have done most of my research based in the Wine Berserkers forums. It gives me a point of departure to learn about wine. I knew nothing of Oregon wines before visiting and was introduced to some great wines and people in the industry through the board. I respect reviewers opinions but it is hard to completely buy in because of palate differences.

   I am hoping to taste you wines somewhere in the near future as my wife and I enjoy Cab Franc.

   1. Thank you so much Monte. Your insight is very valuable. Exposure is the absolute biggest issue. The fact that we do not have a tasting room, means we don’t get recognized by people ‘just driving through’ We are too small for distributors to want to deal with us, so I rely heavily on social media. But twitter, facebook and instagram can only get you so far. This is why we chose to enter the competitions and submit to Wine Enthusiast. We would like to know that it has somewhat of an impact. I guess we will know more when we are in the magazine. I think being DTC online means that we need people to take a ‘leap of faith’ since they can’t physically taste it prior to purchase. We did not participate in Berserker day, but maybe that would be an idea. Thank you for mentioning it. I will have to do some more research on how it works. Thank you again.

      1. According to Cellartracker, 75% of my over 1800 purchases since 2008 have been DTC. During shipping season, I get emails from well over 100 different wineries a month. I have been whittling down the number of wineries I am purchasing from so can get purchasing in line with consumption and so can have money to try new wines.

         So why would I pick your offer out of all of the offers? That would be the big question. A personal connection in some way means a lot. Of the 24 producers I have more than 6 bottles of currently, in only 3 cases have I not met the winemaker or visited the winery. To me that is the key for DTC. I went to the IPBO tasting in Houston not because I do or don’t align with their philosophy but simply there were wineries there I support already and others I wanted to taste for the first time. If Paso did a tasting here, it would be well attended in my opinion.

         I think you are right. There is a leap of faith. But a number of those wineries on my list started with a simple social media interaction like this.

         1. Thank you for elaborating. That does make me feel good about the interactions. I must admit, that if social media was an option as a career when I was choosing I think I would have leaned in that direction I love being online and interacting with so many people from so many places. And I am beyond thrilled when I get to meet them in person. Are you also in TX?

            1. Yes in the Houston Area. There is a really great wine community here. There are many wine events and offline tastings but maybe the best thing is how collaborative our food and beverage industry is with each other. Check out the Houston Somm Association (http://www.houstonsomms.com) When tow of our chefs made the James Beard finalists, their social media was filled with congratulatory posts from others in the industry.

            2. It really does seem like you are in wonderful community. I can see how much is happening through social media. Thank you for sharing the site. I will be sure to check it out! And I think we need to add Houston to our plans for a future vacation to meet everyone.

8. Well congrats on all you have accomplished! What a great experience it must be. I personally don’t pay a whole lot of attention to ratings or medals etc.. I will tend to buy the earlier vintage though. ( everything is better with age 🙂 ) I do enjoy learning about different wines and vineyards so I suppose any magazine of that sort would interest me. Keep up the good work!!

   1. Thank you Lori. Do you typically walk into a store and look for something new, or do you have your “favorites” and stick to them? Since we can not be in a store (distribution rules) is there anything that you would see online or in a magazine that would make you say, “I want to order that wine.”

9. Let’s see, I read Food & Wine, and occasionally peruse some of the others. I really rely a lot more on the local wine shop I go to where I really like and respect the owners judgement. They visit a lot of wineries, like finding smaller producers etc. They open 6 bottles to try with food every Saturday, so I get a chance to sample the majority of wines before I buy. I do get ideas from the Wine Pairing Weekend bloggers!

   1. Thank you David. What a great opportunity to be able to taste at your local shop. I wish I could do that, but with us living in NJ, it isn’t an option. We could attempt to schedule something like that while we are in CA. Thank you for the idea.

10. The publication I most respect are Vinous, wine Spectator, Robert Parker and Wine Enthusiast. This based on how close their scores match my palate preferences.

    Yes, numbers matter. I sample and buy a fair amount of wine but I can’t taste everything, I tend to reply on reviews that I trust. Stephen Tanzer historically been a good match for me and so has James Laube.

    Wine competition medals are less important to me because the judging is not uniform. Having participated as a local judge in the Dallas Morning News Wine competition, I experienced this first hand.

    To date, I have not relied on wine blogger for advice.

    1. Thank you Tom for responding. You have brought up a good point about your palate alignment with particular reviewer. Mike and I have discussed this. There are some people who score a wine very highly and we have learned it may be a good wine, but just is not our palate.

11. 1. Magazines – I subscribe to Wine & Spirits and respect Decanter. Wine Spectator is for other wine drinkers (big scores, big, ripe wines). I also subscribe to Food & Wine, but less so for actual wine advice.
    2. I’m anti-ratings. Actually, if Wine Spectator rates something above 92, I can be sure I will hate it, so it’s useful that way. I dislike any review or shelf card that starts with a score. I have learned to trust my palette. That said, I respect Jon Bonne and Eric Asimov for their opinions, but they don’t score.
    3. Medals mean nothing to me. Nada. Zip.
    4. I look to bloggers for more general information, background, interaction. For actual advice, I do trust a couple of local wine shop employees who know my taste. Also, I’m working to understand the fundamentals of a wide variety of regions, so I’m looking for understanding more than whether or not I’ll like a wine.
    Finally, I respect and love the fact that people are allowed to choose the type of wine they like. The fact you are making wine in Paso Robles means I am less likely to be drawn to your wine, unless I would find you are out of the Paso Robles norm. Not to worry, there are plenty of people who will absolutely love your wine!

    1. Thank you for answering. So, you are not a fan of Paso wines? What about the region’s style turns you away? What regions are you drawn to. You prefer old world?

       1. Hi Lori,
          With the exception of Tablas Creek and Giornata, most of the wines I’ve had from Paso Robles have struck me as more ripe and oaky than is my preference. That’s not to say they’re bad! In fact, I’m not a big buyer of typical California wines in general, preferring the folks who are looking to colder places to grow their grapes (Sonoma Coast, etc…). I do have a strong preference for Old World approaches to wine, wherever the grapes are grown.
          I’m so impressed with you and your husband’s dedication to the craft of winemaking and I’m excited to see your success!

          1. Thank you for your kind words about Mike’s and my dedication. It is our passion, and we never know how to do anything unless we give it our all. Thank you for explaining your statement about Paso Robles. As you know, we are huge proponents of “Drink what you like” and everyone has a different palate. That is, what in part, makes the industry so wonderful. There are so many options to choose from. Slainte!

    2. First of all – WOW! Such great accomplishments and an incredible start – BRAVO – so proud to know you and excited to try your new release!!!! Tagging along Jeff’s comments as I strongly agree with them and have some insight as I’m a brand consultant (yes I know shocking how I handle my own brand – it’s classic shoemaker’s children syndrome) but although I am a mass/volume wine promoter, not your wheelhouse obviously, I do follow industry trends and strategies. I am also building a Latin Spirits company with partners and although a much different space, certain learnings I have had might help. We’re all in this together! Q:1 Decanter is legit and in your space a publication to follow closely – if you could pitch your story to them and possibly be covered in a Central Coast Wine story or Paso AVA story, you will get great exposure with drinkers, makers, sellers alike. Any exposure in all the other pubs is great too – but my hunch is Decanter content may be less affected by “connections” – it’s all “connections” in the industry but I think serious pubs do take on good stories. Q:2 yeah, ratings don’t mean much, but try not to get one below 90 😉 less confident/experienced or nuanced wine drinkers in your target are going to notice but it’s not a sure selling tool – don’t invest too much time and money here – you got one great score – do it if it means personal accomplishment to you – as a new “brand” what matters about your score most is exposure of your name (not vintage or varietal) and getting that recognition is building awareness – but if it’s too costly, should not be where you invest precious dollars and samples. If you get a good review in the NYT by Eric Asimov then drop the mic – you are a God to me! Q:3 Medals don’t sell product but again, as a new brand it announces your presence within the industry – be cautious which medals you pursue – sadly, judging is really inconsistent and has credibility issues. Q:4 this is a case (haha no pun intended) where bigger is better – the bigger the blogger iaudience the bigger the exposure of your brand, it’s tricky because you could make a ton of effort and get little to nothing in return but if you get coverage – tweets, Instagrams, blog posts, FB posts, by some well known bloggers with huge followings, (you know who’s who) it’s just builds your name and reputation. You are already a well regarded blogger – I think your story and what you are already doing is your most effective investment. Lastly the Paso Robles comment from Jeff is very interesting one – again I’m in agreement. Paso is an AVA that is new (it’s not really but respectively in wine culture yes) and the Central Valley wines because of the perception of mass agribusiness and less culty wineries doesn’t always get the credit it deserves – like Lodi – which is on the rise. (FYI I’m a proud alum of CalPoly SLO) However, Central Coast wines are respectable and on the rise, but the Paso AVA “brand” is less coveted and known than Napa and ,I’d like to think, Sonoma worldwide (seriously, some of my frienemies think Sonoma is IN Napa – very cringe worthy!)That said, be the best in class in your AVA and better yet – exceptional at Cab Franc and you’ll get noticed by some of the best somms searching for unique and rare finds for their clients. To that point, if you can get noticed by the wine director at a Michelin star restaurant or by a highly regarded chef/restaurateur that would be another feather in your cap to promote and build business and it begets entry into other accounts, which means revenue to put into more great vintages! A couple of last thoughts: don’t invest in a PR person unless they have proven results getting clients into top pubs and coverage by big bloggers who delivered on posts. Enter competitions sparingly and only the ones with the highest level of industry credibility and exposure – ie. Sonoma Country Harvest Festival really promotes winners and gets cred – I’m sure Central Coast region has equivalent support/promotion. Get more advice from people who are steeped in the industry like Amy at #Sonomachat (social media maven) my friend Rich Reader @vinebuzz – he builds fine restaurant accounts for clients and has a respected palate. I know West Coast peeps but you could snoop around and get advice from a somm on the East Coast or get friendly with an insider at Wine Library – networking to get advice on your strategy might help you decide where to and not to invest. Net net – you’ve already conquered the biggest hurdle – you made a great wine! Cheers my friend, –Loie

       1. Thank you so much Loie! You have provided so much pertinent information. I never even thought of “pitching a story” to decanter, but I will contact them. I have gotten us in two newspapers and a magazine here in NJ why not shoot bigger! I have read over and over how the 89 is the deadly number, but then see wineries promoting an 86, so I was really confused by that. Maybe we’ll attempt to get Eric Asimov a sample just for you! :o) We aren’t planning to send ’13 to any other ratings, we were contemplating that for ’14. As for competitions, we have tried to research which ones to look at – there are SO MANY. Is there a list somewhere of the most influential ones.? It’s amazing how many “fliers” we are now getting in the mail to enter their competitions. Thank you for your kind words about me being a well regarded blogger- not sure that is true, but thank you! We may go with this route more. As you said, it may not get us an immediate sale, but it does promote the brand and at this point that is what is needed. I did not know you were Mustang! I see what both you and Jeff mean about Paso AVA, honestly we found it simply because Mike wanted to live in No. CA and I wanted So. CA and we started looking at the central coast and then found out it was a wine region! Then after visiting, fell in love. We can really only get into restaurants in CA because of the three tier laws. WE would need a distributor and no one is really going to look at us because of our size. As for the PR person, you are looking at her! Flying by the seat of my pants trying to learn as we go without making any major mistakes. I will reach out to Amy and to Rich also. Thank you for taking the time to give me such fantastic feedback! Slainte!

          1. I’m relieved you are being scrappy and not spending dollars on PR people – it’s such a crap shoot. The competitions are really tough to discern but ask someone in the trade who can advise you on which ones they watch. Budget your time and $$ and pick wisely! Talk to the Paso AVA vintners and growers association and ask them if they have any relationships with Decanter and maybe they’ll consider a feature story on Paso AVA with highlights on a few winemakers like yourselves. Ask your Paso AVA V&G about relationships they have with the other wine/trade pubs too. Final thought, your blog and social presence must be great for your wine club – now just consider ways to engage members with unique exclusive experiences/special offers/releases/swag – focusing on your most loyal customers and engaging and rewarding them is the best way to building a strong business and the best marketing investment you can make. Xoxo Cheers!

12. I work for a Wine Competition and here are my observations, when people go to a winery and see medals they are much more likely to try that wine more than others. Many judges keep track of the wines that they really like, I know this because we provide all of the wineries information to any judge that asks for it, AFTER a judging has taken place. Look for Competitions where judges confer with one another to come to a decision, after all they are professionals but they may have not had any experience with some specific varietals and another judge can offer their experience.
    We are in a Riesling and Cab Franc area and out of state wineries are looking to see if we judge these wines from other areas accordingly and our record reflects that we do. Having a diverse group of judges from all over the world allows for great experience in the judging of varietals. I am constantly visiting wineries and calling managers to get their input as to how we can be better. My experience with wine experts are that they really don’t care about medals because they use different outlets to get information where as residential wine buyers look for medals to help them make a decision. I personally use numbers to help me made a decision using James Suckling, Steve Tanzier and Wine Spectator because their ratings match my tastes and it has worked well for me. one thing I have noticed is that boutique wineries have come up with some fantastic wines at very reasonable prices and have raised the bar for everyone else.

    1. Your comment is fantastic. I liked that you said the JS & ST have ratings that match your palate. That is so important. You can’t just go out and buy a wine and expect to like it just because someone in the wine industry media says its a certain score. You have to “learn” their palate in relation to yours. As for the medals, I have to agree, the general population is more drawn to them. Shiny medals are always good! Thank you so much for taking the time to read my post and for such an informative response!

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